Back in the 50s and 60s when I was a cop, the shootings of cops in this country rarely occurred. Not so nowadays. Hardly a day goes by without a police officer getting shot somewhere in this country. Why the change?
There are a number of reasons people now decide to shoot at cops. Probably the main reason is that the police have lost the respect they once held. Daily media reports of police misconduct, whether true or not, have created disrespect of the police by many whites. And the shootings of blacks by white cops, even when justified, have led to hatred of the police by many blacks. Disrespect and hatred of the police lead some lowlifes to feel they are justified in taking out a cop.
Sweet talking cop killers into surrendering is another reason for the alarming increase in the shooting of police officers. In my day, when a cop killer did not immediately give up, he was wiped out forthwith. Today, they bring in a hostage negotiator and sweet talk a cop killer for hours in an effort to take him into custody unhurt. That does not discourage others from killing cops.
I remember a case back in New York when a couple of cops were shot to death by two or three thugs. I think it was early in the 50s. NYPD traced the killers to an apartment in New Jersey. Did they call in a hostage negotiator to sweet talk those pieces of shit into surrendering? Hell no! New York cops kicked in the door and shot the scumbags until they had more holes in them than Swiss cheese. The knowledge that cops would set out to snuff them, discouraged many a criminal from opening fire on the police.
The absence of the death penalty is also a contributing factor. Back in my day, cop killers who were captured alive received the death penalty and they were executed within a couple of years. Then most states still had the death penalty. Today many states no longer have the death penalty and in those states that still do, the condemned inmates roost on death row for up to 20 years or more. That amounts to a de facto abolition of the death penalty and does not discourage the killing of cops.
Then there is the internet, something not even imagined in my day. The internet gives every Tom, Dick, Harry and Mary the opportunity to spew their poison against cops if they have a beef, real or imagined, against the police. The flooding of cyberspace with anti-police rhetoric and smartphone video clips, which can be misleading, showing the police in a bad light tend to spread disrespect and hatred for the men and women in blue.
Back in my day of course, there were some questionable if not outright bad shootings by cops. And when a black man was shot by white cops, there were no protests and riots in the streets. There was no Black Lives Matter rabble then, calling cops murderers. Calling cops murderers, even when the shooting of a black man is entirely justified, brings out the worst in society as exemplified by the assassination of five Dallas police officers and the now not so infrequent ambushes of cops.
Those were truly the good old days for the police when I was a cop. Today it’s no wonder that cops are now quick on the trigger, what with the daily shootings of police officers in this country.
Data on police shot by “Thugs”, seems to suggest it is safer now.
https://danwang.co/statistics-on-police-fatalities/
Manny, that may be so if we’re talking about the last 10 years, but 40 or more years ago there were not nearly as many cops shot as there are nowadays. And you didn’t have cps ambushed then either.
This will be my last comment, the data goes back to 1961, opening paragraph.
Manny, I’ll stake my life, what little there is left of it, on this – In my day there were not daily shootings of cops or deadly ambushes against unsuspecting police officers.
Unfortunately Howie your feelings (no matter how heartfelt) offer absolutely no objective data – which Manny provided. “Staking your life” is irrelevant.
I might note that the rise of the internet and an instantaneous news cycle works both ways – not only has it produced a growing anathema towards cops, it also provides a hyperawareness of every single incident. It also encourages a “Chicken Little” mindset which exaggerates every single incident. And it produces a deplorable tendency to inflate, misconstrue or just flat out fabricate unsupportable statistics to support a particular position.
Fat and Manny, I have just finished carefully reading Wang’s data. First of all, his report deals only with the killing of cops, not with the shooting of cops who survived. And his data does not go beyond 2013. I still maintain that fewer cops were shot in my day and there were no deadly ambushes against officers then.
Howie this was a good and truthful article. After 42 years of law enforcement, I have seen the changes. I started my career during the Vietnam era, Symbionese liberation army, and Patty Hearst’s wanted posted was in every police station and post office. Many police officers were assaulted and killed. However, the worst time for police was when President Obama openly criticized police officers for doing their sworn duties. This led to Black Lives Matter and police officers being ambushed. It was a horrible time for police and the statistics about police murdering blacks was not true. The media hype stirred the pot and many officers suffered. in 2016, The Washington Post article quoted “On the most extreme use of force — officer-involved shootings — we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account,” said Harvard economics professor Roland G. Fryer Jr. in the abstract of the July 2016 paper. Professor Fryer a black professor admitted that he was surprised at the outcome of his research. Fat Albert, I agree with you about the internet and the consequences of the instantaneous news cycles. Let’s all remember that each police officer upholds the statutes because of an oath of office.
The numbers of officers killed by year going back to 1971;
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html
Manny, my friend, your stats are only about officers killed. My article dealt with the shooting of cops, not just with the killing of cops. The reduction in the number of cops killed can be explained by better training, the wearing of body armor, and the use of SWAT teams to gain entry in executing search warrants and in other situations that pose a great risk to police officers. Those factors were not in play in my day.
Police officers consider all other cops as family. You can bet that back in my day, the same as today, every shooting of a cop anywhere in this country came to the attention of every officer in this country. I guarantee you that back in my day, cops were not shot near as often as they are being shot nowadays.
Excellent info Howie. Since you are offering a guarantee, I assume you can back it up with hard data?
Look Howie just so we’re clear here, I like cops. I have friends who are cops (HPD, Webster PD, HCCSPD) and ex-cops. Even one cop shot is too many – whether he is killed or not.
But, frankly I’m exhausted by all of the blather that’s posted on the internet (from conservatives and liberals alike). Everybody seems to want attention for their particular issue. And, the easiest way to get it is to post alarming “statistics” about how horrible things are, and how they are getting even worse by the second. We have to do something! It’s a crisis!!! People are dying!!!!!
Over and over again. . . . .
Same song different verse. . . . . .
So, if you want my attention, if you want my support, shoot, if you just want me to agree with you, give me the data. Cite your sources. Provide the backup. And, forgive me, data means actual, objectively verifiable, and quantifiable. Not “Well I’ve been around for a long time and things are worse now”.
Otherwise, you’re just one more dude on the internet screaming for attention. Here’s an example: “Nowadays hardly a day goes by without a police officer getting shot somewhere in this country.” Really! OK, there are 365 days in the year. That means 365 cops (plus or minus) got shot last year. Either you have data to support that statement or you have no business making it. So, which is it?
Fat, I can well remember that in my day I was made aware of every time a cop was shot in this country, and it wasn’t all that often. If you will check out the LAPPL NewsWatch, PoliceOne.com or Officer.com websites you will see that today cops are being shot almost every day somewhere in this country, and sometimes several cops on the same day. And the shootings these websites are reporting are not fake news.
If you don’t believe me, try finding a website with the number of cops shot – not killed – every year. Good luck with that
One final word. I should not be replying to you and Manny. When I am right, I do not neat to defend myself and when I am wrong, I cannot defend myself.
Howie,
I’m not asking you to defend yourself. I’m asking you to defend your anecdotal observations with objective data. I’m not even saying you’re wrong, I’m saying that other than your memories (“. . . in my day. . . ” geez you sound like my grandfather!) you don’t have any data to support your inflammatory headline.
And, it’s not my job to find data to prove you right. Obviously you can’t find the data (by your own admission) so why should I? Right now it’s a case of Manny who does have stats versus you who has nada. You are correct – when you’re right you don’t need to defend yourself. The problem is you have no clue about whether you are actually right.
So far it appears that the data provided by Manny concerns police killings not assaults by firearms, knives, clubs, vehicles or beer bottles on police officers. I don’t believe it exists or the data is inaccurate due to lack of reporting or simply not tracking it. Anyway this whole dialog is comparing apples and oranges.
Trey,
I agree. Manny’s data, while tangentially interesting, is not strictly on-point with Howie’s assertion. (Although to be honest, Howie didn’t mention knives, clubs, vehicles, etc. either.) Nevertheless at least he offered some DATA. So far all we’ve gotten from Howie is grandfatherly assertions (. . . in MY day. . . ). He may very well be right, but without actual data who knows?
First I am not taking a stand on what Howie states, but I do believe that some facts should be given, I should not have to look them up but there some data out there
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/daifacts.html
While the following data does not go back 50 years since 2003 to 2014 there are more injuries
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29395571
The following study shows that about 20% of police injuries are during training
https://www.officer.com/investigations/article/10757115/injured-on-duty-not-if-but-when
There is quite a bit of data out there, and the leading cause of death of police officers seem to be traffic related
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/07/12/are-most-job-related-deaths-of-police-caused-by-traffic-incidents/?utm_term=.fe54f30266f8
I have two brothers that retired from HPD and a nephew that is a Sargent HPD another a Deputy Constable.
I like facts that are backed by data.
Yeah.
“I like facts that are backed by data.” If you don’t have data to back it up, it ain’t a fact is your opinion.
Thanks for the data that you provided Manny!
Howie, both the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the FBI provide extensive data on officers injured in the line of duty. You’ll find the FBI’s LEOKA reports providing more detail on deaths and assaults but the BLS breaks down incidents by month. A spot check of older reports suggests you may be onto something but arguing assaults while others focus on shooting deaths doesn’t make any sense.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2017
https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-officers-2014.htm
I am not as ancient as Howie, but I am in my late 60s and worked in the criminal justice system for 24 years. Some of these comments seem to be going back and forth past each other. There is a different between cops shot to death and cops injured by gunfire. My admittedly non-scientific take is that Howie’s general recollection of things is probably accurate. The 24-hour news cycle, cable news and the Internet tend to magnify “the issue of the day” whatever that may be. I do remember when shot cops were a big deal and would make the news (news papers or broadcast TV news) were unusual and were big news. Cops shot to death made national news. Now unless you have more than one dead officer in a deliberate ambush or some other spectacular event it barely makes page A-6 below the fold. Further I believe a general disdain for law enforcement, pushed as an article of faith by the former administration and the lunatic left, contributes hugely to this phenomenon as it makes shooting cops understandable, justifiable and even laudable in some circles. Just my opinion, for what that may be worth to you.
No way I’m going to get in the weeds of a Huffpo push piece and a Vox ‘explanation’ to corroborate any point I want to make. And I don’t need statistics to know Obama’s army created BLM out of a lie to justify open anarchy that includes attacking police officers.
I’ll stand with Howie on this one without reservation.
Not sure if Howies info or Mannys data is correct, that said, things have changed in this country when it comes to violence whether or not it is directed at the police or civilians all you have to do is watch the news. Something is very very wrong with the culture in this nation. Things were going down hill long before Osamabama came to town.
I agree with you. Hopefully we bottomed out. No way did I think we could turn things around with a simple election. It looks more and more like both parties have merged when it comes to corruption. Obama took great advantage with his ability to get all these agencies to become weaponized and the leadership on both sides went along with it. McCain participating in the IRS deceit and advancing the Steele dossier are prime examples.
I am very grateful Trump came along and began exposing this mess.
Perhaps it’s officers like this awesome specimen that are causing the populace as a whole to not like police very much https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/08/20/what-kind-of-man-beats-up-a-disabled-76-year-old-grandmother-lawsuit-against-dublin-cop-alleges/
There are 800,000 American law enforcement officers risking their lives to protect society. There are bound to be some bad cops in the lot. You have cherry picked one of the worst examples. Come on, get real.