Quick, someone call the humanity police. Someone get chief prosecutor Fatou Bom Bensouda of the International Criminal Court to charge President Trump and the U.S. with Crimes Against Humanity.
Children held in illegal immigrant detention facilities have no toothbrushes or toothpaste. They haven’t been able to take showers. There’s no soap. They’re wearing the same dirty clothing they wore when the Border Patrol swooped them up. There are no diapers. The children are not served any hot meals and they complain about being hungry. And many of them are sleeping on concrete floors because the facilities are overcrowded.
That’s what the Trump-hating media has been reporting for the past couple of weeks. And the reports are most probably true … no fake news here.
But before you get all exercised, it’s time for a reality check. The children swooped up by the Border Patrol are from Latin American families seeking asylum in the U.S. However. they do not meet the standard for asylum seekers. They were not being persecuted, imprisoned or murdered by the governments of Guatemala, Honduras or Mexico. While some of them want to escape the violence in their home countries, that does not constitute grounds for seeking asylum.
The truth is that the ‘asylum seekers’ are really seeking the American dream. They are fleeing living conditions in Guatemala, Honduras and Mexico that are no better, if not worse, than the conditions the detained children are experiencing now.
I’ve been to towns in Mexico, Venezuela, Peru, Ecuador, Columbia and Brazil, and believe me, most of the poor in our country are living a life of luxury by comparison.
The inhabitants of many Latin American slums do not have running water. They pee and shit in the streets. Diaper-age kids are diaperless. The inhabitants are dirty and unkempt. I’m sure many of them go hungry. I suspect some of them do not have toothbrushes or toothpaste. And the slums are overcrowded. Some children are sleeping four or five to a bed. And some children have no bed to sleep on … they sleep on dirt floors.
Those living under those deplorable conditions in Guatemala, Honduras and Mexico have heard that the streets of America are paved with gold. That’s why they want to come to this country.
The media has been making a big deal out of children dying at the detention facilities. Of course, the death of any child is tragic whether in a detention facility or a million-dollar home. But I’ll bet the mortality rate of young children at the detention facilities is significantly lower than the mortality rate of young children in the slums of Latin America.
The Democrats are screaming bloody murder, calling the conditions torturous. But not so fast there Dems! The condition of children in the detention facilities under the Obama administration were similar, if not the same, as the condition which now infuriate the Democrats. The only difference is that while Obama was President, there were only blips about that in the Obama-loving media. Obama was given a pass because he was the first black president.
Should the conditions in our illegal immigrant detention facilities be improved? Of course they should! Do I think the conditions are abhorrent? Of course I do! But before Trump is charged with Crimes Against Humanity, it is important to note that the detained children are suffering no more than they did when they lived free in the slums of their home countries.
They come here of their own volition. Stupidest yet most revealing aspect of the whole demedia concentration camp narrative.
Obama began this ramped up assault on our border and the dems are determined to see it through.
Howie makes the presumption of ineligibility for asylum based on…
Nothing.
Concentration Camps are defined as mass incarceration of civilians without due process of law.
These are Trump’s Concentration Camps.
If you want to sit back and see how many justifications you can come up with for Concentration Camps in America.
Then you are also constructing reasons why you yourself might end up in one.
If you wish to avoid that, then it is best to try to come up with ideas to NOT have Concentration Camps in America.
Ah Pat.It’s wonderful to hear from you again.! Please note that a petition for asylum requires positive proof. In other words, it is the responsibility of the petitioner to provide proof that they meet requirements. The legal presumption is one of ineligibility absent proof to the contrary.
According to the Oxford English dictionary, a concentration camp is: “a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.” Please note that every single person currently in an INS holding facility. has the option to leave – all they need to is return to their own country. The sole exceptions are unaccompanied minors.
So Pat, once we are past the biased, pejorative name calling, what’s your solution? How would YOU deal with this mess?
I have read that the lawlessness and violence in the middle american states grew out of US interventions in the 70s and 80s, and what we seeing is blowback. Does anyone have any insight into that?
Howie: Keeping children in those conditions is a crime. It’s child abuse. Take a look at section 22.04 of the Penal Code. Young children don’t have the choice of coming to the US or not. They go where their parents take them.
To keep them in those kinds of unsanitary conditions with lack of sufficient food and sleeping accommodations is unforgivable. And, as a federal attorney recently argued in federal court, presuming that they don’t need things lie soap and tooth brushes is simply beyond the pale.
As for whether it’s an international crime, the ICC statute includes in its definition of crimes against humanity “Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great
suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.” What’s happening to those children comes darn close to that.
You’ve been to poor areas in Latin America. I’ve been to lots of poor areas in Africa. And, yes, I feel sorry for them. But one thing I remember is driving on back roads in Rwanda through villages of mud huts. One thing that struck me was that the mud huts may have had mud yards but they were clean and so were the people. They weren’t living in the deplorable conditions those children are in ICE custody on the border.
In any case, Americans are supposed to be decent people. Even if they come from truly horrible conditions in their home countries, as Americans we should do better. We shouldn’t mistreat and abuse children.
It just isn’t what Americans are supposed to do or be.
I just wanted to add to Tom’s comment this question:
If you kept a child in your home under these conditions, and the police were called to do a welfare check, what would you expect would happen?
“Under Texas Penal Code § 22.04, alleged offenders commit this crime if they intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, by act or intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly by omission, cause bodily injury, serious bodily injury, or serious mental deficiency, impairment, or injury to a child, “
Seems to me that Congressional Democrats are guilty as hell.
And the comparison to concentration camps is abhorrent ignorance.
Question for Pat Ryan, Tom, Barry Klein and Jeff Larson. Do we have the right to defend our border?
Have the Churches bring out the water trucks and pour water over childen and assist them in cleaning up. Have the churches to step up to doing more and hardly nothing. Those huge Catholic churches should be opening up its doors by now to have homeless and migrants stay in there during evening hours from 4 pm to 7 am
These children came here with the intent of being arrested. They often stood in line to be arrested. They could be released any time if a competent adult family member showed up and agreed to take them BACK HOME. They are coming (being sent actually) with the specific intent of flooding the system to the point where it is now. It is part of a plan.
The democraps do not WANT to fix the problem. They want the problem to continue, preferably to get worse, so that they will have an issue that they think will be a sure loser that they think they can hang around Trump’s neck at the next election. These kids are pawns, photo ops for people with agendas.
Oh look! I got a down twinkle for asking the question. Brave, brave coward we have lurking among us.
To those of you who feel it is criminal to treat children this way, I have a suggestion. Please feel free to take a couple of the detained children in and care for them in your homes until their cases are disposed of. You would only have to care for them for a couple of months or so until they can be deported … that is, if a civil rights attorney does not appeal the deportation order.
You could even ask their parents, if they can be found, for permission to adopt them. If you do adopt them, I am sure the immigration judge will grant them permanent residence in our country.
This is a situation that was brought on my mass illegal immigration. I worked with Border Patrol and ICE and never saw mean or cruel treatment of persons detained. There are no crimes against humanity happening in the detention centers only a large volume of people over taxing the system.
They are not starving or being tortured.
We need to resurrect ‘Pedro Pan’ flights and get these kids back to their own countries. They are not Americans, they are not our responsibility. I agree we shouldn’t be holding them. We should be putting them on buses or planes just as fast as they sneak in, they need to be returned. We should have a goal of 24 hour turn around time, from entering the country, to leaving on a bus or plane.
Easy peasy, problem solved.
The border/illegal immigration situation has a better chance of being solved than Harris County ever leaning Republican again.
I believe this to be a true statement. That’s why I won’t be staying as well.
Every one seems to always want to point fingers seeking to blame. Although the majority of Americans are at fault for this. Meaning that the majority of Americans vote every four years for a president to make constructive changes. Although they receive the same thing , “HORSE FECES.” Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results, is Albert Einsteins definement of insanity. At least now we have a President , Mr. Donald Trump who has the valor to stand up and make true constructive change for the embetterment of America and placing the American people FIRST! As it should always be. Being that the entire world is always dependant upon America as the worlds police, etc………..All Americans in support of allowing these illegal aliens are commiting treason against there own fellow Americans. Human beings are creatures of habit and the majority of them are never willing to accept change for the better. They haven’t learned that humanity evolves forward it doesn’t stay stuck on hang-ups. I’ve waited for over twenty years for a President such as Mr. Donald Trump. He’s also a good example in the living proof that the American Politicians ( Deomo.s/Repub.s) have been screwing the American people for way too many years. Meaning that as much that has been accomplished during his presidency up to this point is living, breathing proof. American politics are full of nothing to say! And the only reason why the republicans have adopted Trump is so that they have have a chance once he’s out of office. The truth is that the demo.s and repub.s are sleeping in the same bed after hours once the cameras, etc have been turned off. And I’ve never voted in my entire life, although this next election season my vote will be for Mr. Donald Trump. And Mr. Greg Abbot of Texas prove to me that Texas is not a sanctuary state and lets round up all the immigrants that are here illegaly. And believe me my vote will not be for any politician that is in support of assisting these illegals. Instead you should be focused on the Homeless epidemic that resides here in the U.S. who are constantly charged with criminal trespassing. And there our fellow Americans. We also have to City of Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner and former Mayor Anise Parker for that. To include who are they to impede upon the right to liberty pertinent to ones godly conscious worshiping beliefs in giving food to the poor and needy in an individualized basis, but not limited there and unto……………………A CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION UNTO THE HOUSTON PUBLIC. And all those in support of these illegals , lets see you allow them into your house/ property to live, do like Cher BACK IT UP with action not horse feces talk, talk, talk, talk…………………. That is true sincere credit that I will always give to Cher! And she’s also not a politician, she’s a performing artist.
ring that bell Alfred!!! You have to admit since Sam Nucia put the kabosh on inquiring about legal status in 1992 the impacts are being felt. No police chief or mayor has relaxed his directive. Houston is a sanctuary city.
The treatment of Latino children by the Trump administration is appalling. But Ive long stopped appealing to Trump supporters sense of decency or morality or consistency. Its a fools errand IMHO.
Ill just appeal to the GOPs political sensabilities. How does this play out in the short run, medium run, and long run.
Short run. Current policies on Dreamers and baby jails are repulsive not only to minorities, but increasingly to many suburban Anglo voters. This policy gains the GOP zero voters they dont already have and either incentivizes the opposition and even worse, pulls moderates away from the GOP. Texas shouldnt be truly competitive for about 5 years. But it is competitive now.
In the medium to long term, its even worse for the GOP. Minority voters (African American, Asian American, Hispanic and LGBTQ) will be 45 percent or more of the voting population in 10 years. Unless the Anglo population votes like they do in Mississippi for the GOP (and they dont, and won’t), the GOP cannot win statewide if they lose those groups by 80-20 margins. Putting up some homophobic Batista era Cuban isnt going to work very well in the face of GOP abuses of Latinos in Texas. Pro tip: Latinos are no more homophobic than Anglos. Oh and go to 270towin.com and try to figure how any Republican can win the Presidency without Texas and Arizona.
And even worse for the GOP, the intra latino political dynamic may be changing too. Much less Bill Flores and a whole lot more Lina Hidalgo. And when the whole story of these baby jails comes out, as it will eventually do so, there are a whole lot of Republicans that are going to be permanently toxic to many voters.
So whats the 10 year plan, Texas GOP?
Tom,
The current policy for illegal immigrants is the same policy that previous administrations instituted. You didn’t seem to have a problem with it when BHO was president. . . .
But putting that aside, what’s YOUR plan? I’m getting tired of everyone whining about what’s happening now. What would YOU do different? Just open the gate? Let everyone in? Any restrictions at all? Congress funds INS operations, but last I heard Nancy Pelosi is refusing to vote on a bill for additional funding to deal with the massive influx.
You might note however that there are a lot (I mean a LOT) of Hispanics who can here legally, did the right thing, and became citizens, who are furious at those who want to open the boarders. You might also want to check with the African American community again. A lot of them aren’t too happy about the increased competition for jobs, housing, etc., not to mention the potential loss of their position as the most influential minority.
When the whole story of the “baby jails” comes out I suspect that there will be at least as many Democrat names as Republicans.
You could walk across the border at a legal border crossing under Obama and apply for asylum. You cant really do that now. Obama didnt preside over toddlers being stashed under overpasses with effectively zero supervision. Obama didnt have a policy of separating toddlers from relatives. Ibama supported the Dream Act. Obama didnt deliberately move asylum seekers to areas far from access to pro bono legal assistance. Obama never threatened to punish children if he didn’t have his way on legislation. Obama tried to provide assistance to Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador. Obama never conflated asylum seekers with gang members. Obama didn’t prosecute people who left water for migrants. And the list goes on. It is true that Obama, when faced with large numbers of unaccompanied teenagers crossing the border did take some steps to humanely house some of those asylum seekers. Feel free to blame the baby jails on Obama. But know the current policies are a dramatic departure from those under Obama, and few who your party will need to convince to trust you in the future will buy that viewpoint.
As fat as my plan.
1) Legalizing dreamers with a real path to Citizenship.
2) banning CBP from hindering asylum applications from applicants at a legal border crossing.
3) Massuve spending on immigration judges and legal counsel so that we can adjudicate fairly the claims
4) Bar the separation of families. Bar the warehousing of infants/toddlers. In the odd case that a person under the age of 12 shows up unaccompanied, that child shall be cared for in a manner consistent with US CPS standards.
5) To the extent that camps must exist, they shall be open to the media and elected officials at all times. They shall be in areas where legal counsel is available to interrees in a timely and effective manner.
6) To the extent that the government cannot hold asylum applicants in humane conditions, they shall be allowed to be sponsored out by outside groups.
7) Work with El Salvador Honduras and Guatemala to help them create an environment where people don’t feel compelled to flee.
8) Fully investigate how we got to this point, including all communication between WH staff and ICE/DHS/CBP on this matter and the creation of a commission to review every simgle case of abuse and neglect that agents of the US government or their contractors are accused of by every interred person claiming abuse or neglect.
When the whole truth comes out, and it will, there really is no plan required by the Dems other than what Ive mentioned.
Interesting. Here’s my idea:
1. Anyone attempting to enter the US at any location other than a legal border crossing shall be immediately deported. No exceptions. Repeat offenders should be permanently barred from entry.
2. People who facilitate such activity should be tried, convicted and subject to substantive prison sentences. At the end of said sentence they should be deported.
3. People who commit criminal acts while in the US illegally, should be immediately become non-eligible for any kind of legal immigration status at all. At the end of their trial/sentence, they should be immediately deported – regardless of parental or marital status.
4. We should immediately begin strict enforcement of current laws regarding the employment of illegals. Employers who are caught employing non-documented workers should be subject to fines and other criminal penalties.
5. Illegal immigrants should not be eligible for public aid or assistance. Not withstanding the Supreme Court’s ruling on education, this would mean housing assistance, food stamps, Medicaid, etc. Emergency medical assistance would be an exception, but not long term care.
6. Forging government documents, or using existing a S.S. number which is not yours, is a felony. We should prosecute it as such with substantial penalties.
7. I’m totally OK with legalizing Dreamers – if they are OK with committing to a 4 year stint of public service – either as a member of the Armed Services, or a civilian worker in the AmeriCorps or similar. Complete their service and I’m OK with citizenship. Please note that I’m NOT OK with subsidizing their education. They can get loans or work their way through school like I did.
8. Individuals seeking asylum should apply in their country of origin. People showing up at the border (at a legal point of entry) who are seeking asylum should be assessed on the spot. I’m willing to spend as much money as necessary to hire sufficient judges and legal counsel to accomplish this. Those who are denied asylum should be immediately returned across the border.
9. Unaccompanied minors should immediately be returned to their country of origin. If that isn’t possible then they should be placed in the temporary care of foster families and ultimately adopted. Parents who will send their minor children to a foreign country, unaccompanied, are by definition, unfit to be parents. (Crap, we’ll report parents to CPS for making their kid walk half a mile to school!)
10. Anyone found claiming an unrelated child as his or her own in order to facilitate an asylum claim, should be immediately prosecuted for felony child abuse. The child (or children) involved should be re-patriated if at all possible. If not, see #8 above.
11. Families should not be separated. In cases where they need to be held, a well-policed camp should be more than adequate. Sanitary facilities should be provided, along with basic sanitary supplies. I’m perfectly OK with giving them MRE’s to eat, but it’s probably less expensive to simply set up a field kitchen. They don’t get to leave until their case is adjudicated (see #7 above) If they don’t want to wait they are welcome to go back to their country of origin.
12. Within reasonable limits holding facilities should be open to media and government officials.
13. I really don’t care how we got to this point. If you, or anyone else with reasonable standing, have evidence of criminal wrongdoing they should submit it to a US Attorney. I don’t want a commission, or a special prosecutor, or (God forbid) a Congressional Investigation. The last thing we need is more political show trials with various elected officials doing their very best to rack up “gotcha” points against the other side. We’ve been dealing with an “immigration crisis” for the last 30+ years, through 6 different administrations. There’s more than sufficient blame to go around. If you think your party’s hands are clean then you’re not just a fool, you’re brain dead.
Tom in Lazybrook, please take a moment out from wallowing in Obama’s shit for a reality check. Then you could learn from the Border Patrol that under the Obama administration, illegal immigrants were treated in exactly the same way as they are being treated now under Trump. The difference was that then the Border Patrol was not faced with a swarm of migrant caravans from Guatemala and Honduras or a large number of unaccompanied children. Then the detention facilities were more than adequate to hold the usual number of illegal immigrants from Mexico. Now they are overwhelmed with illegal immigrants not only from Mexico, but many more from Guatemala and Honduras, with a goodly number of them being unaccompanied children. As deplorable as the conditions are, the Border Patrol is doing the best it can. The BP agents are not sadistic Nazi SS concentration camp guards and Trump is not deliberately mistreating illegal immigrants.
Now you may resume your wallowing in Obama’s shit.
Trump has effectively closed the border at legal crossing points to asylum seekers. Until the legal crossing points accept asylum seekers in a timely manner, then theres really no way for asylum seekers to apply legally. So long as Trump is blocking that application, crossing the border at unauthorized points should not be considered a criminal offense worthy of deportation or incarceration. Trump and Miller and Homan deliberately are putting the economic and legitimate asylum seekers together because they want to illegally violate US law regarding migrants. The entire point of asylum is that it is too dangerous for them to stay where they live.
And FYI, Trump has blocked the State Department from processing asylum requests from applicants in Russia. So its pretty clear that the ‘apply in your own country’ option is BS.
The problem is solvable, but involves helping Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras solve their security situation.
Again, theres a HUGE difference between the policy under Obama and Trump.
Trump is deliberately making the situation worse so he can gin up his base with it. You realize that after he leaves, the truth will come out and I suspect that reparations and citizenship will probably be offered to those mistreated under his policy. Youre all being played for fools by Trump.
The solution is to open the door at legal crossing points to asylum seekers. That way, we will know who really is here to apply for asylum and who really only applies when caught. Trumps policy really makes it impossible to tell the difference. Institute fair and timely asylum hearings that comply with our agreements on asylum, and help the countries generating the migrants fix their problems. Trump appears to be making all those things worse.
Im sure there will be another caravan next year before the election too.
The supporters of Trumps immigration policy are being played for fools by Trump, and when the baby jail investigators make Abu Gharib look like a mild controversy, then many of Trumps Republican surrogates are going to be in a very bad place politically.
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Fat Albert and Howie: Do you really want to stop illegal immigration. It’s easy. Make it impossible for illegal migrants to get jobs. There already are laws on the books making it a crime to hire illegals. Just enforce them. Send a couple of big corporation CEOs to prison for a couple of years for hiring illegal migrants and it wouldn’t be long before no corporation would hire someone who isn’t authorized to work in the US.
But, I don’t see the administration and the Justice Department getting a lot of those indictments. Any idea why? Maybe it’s because employers want people to pick crops in the fields, wash dishes in restaurants, do construction in the hot, humid South, and bunches of other jobs that wouldn’t be filled without them. Howie and Albert, are the people who mow your lawns named Kelly or maybe some Hispanic name. If it’s Hispanic, you’re part of the problem.
And, you want a wall to prevent illegal immigration. If so, make one that will work, like the one the East Germans had on the border with West Germany. Start off with a plowed zone so footprints will show. Then plant landmines, lots of landmines. Then have guard towers with guys armed with machine guns and orders to shoot and don’t ask questions. Finally, they had a neat fence on the border. It looked like a chain link fence but when you lifted yourself up, the fence was designed to slip down, the links would close and cut off the fingers of anyone trying to climb it. It was effective as hell.
Whoa there Tom, whoa! Where in this article did I say anything about stopping immigration? Where did I say anything about wanting a wall? I merely tried to talk about why the conditions are so deplorable and why I did not believe they constitute crimes against humanity. Why are you putting words in my mouth? This is not the first time you have done that!
Let me reiterate what I told Tom in Lazybrook who doesn’t seem, ordoesn’t want to get it because he keeps wallowing in Obama’s shit. Under the Obama administration, illegal immigrants were treated in exactly the same way as they are being treated now under Trump. The difference was that then the Border Patrol was not faced with a swarm of migrant caravans from Guatemala and Honduras or a large number of unaccompanied children. Then the detention facilities were more than adequate to hold the usual number of illegal immigrants from Mexico. Now they are overwhelmed with illegal immigrants not only from Mexico, but many more from Guatemala and Honduras, with a goodly number of them being unaccompanied children. As deplorable as the conditions are, the Border Patrol is doing the best it can. The BP agents are not sadistic Nazi SS concentration camp guards and Trump is not deliberately mistreating illegal immigrants.
Tom,
Please see my point number 4 above. Obviously, a big part of the illegal immigrant problem is the fact that there is effectively no penalty for hiring one. I’m all for criminal penalties for hiring illegals. The fact is that there hasn’t been effective enforcement of hiring laws in decades. As I said above this isn’t a Democrat or Republican problem, this is a “career politicians who suck up to big donors” problem. Something else that would help a lot here would be term limits, but that’s another discussion.
I honestly don’t think a fence is a particularly practical or effective solution. It won’t hurt, but anything we can build (short of East German tactics) someone else can figure out a way around. The more rational approach is to remove incentives for them to come in the first place.
BYW Tom, when I hire a contractor – whether it’s to mow my lawn, fix my toilet, or build a patio, one of my requirements is that they certify that all of their employees are legal workers, whether their name is Alvarez, Kelly, or Nicolai.
In my opinion the Central American countries are sending as many illegal immigrants as possible. The people that make into the US send money home! It is a large part of the Central American economy.
When ignorant people send 30,000-40,000 children per month to be trafficked across many countries ALL ALONE, exposed to all sorts of horrible abuse, what should we do with them? Shall we set them free to roam all alone? We don’t have facilities to handle this volume of children and why should we?
They are Using these trafficked children as the golden ticket. It allows a convicted felon who has been previously deported to reenter the US and claim asylum because he has an abducted child with him!